Originally by: Stahlregen

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Unfortunately CCP so far has failed any attempt to police themselves to the point where it takes a threadnought and a downing of the forums on both occasions just to get CCP to even acknowledge any wrong doing.

People are really ****ed and want blood, Like right this second. Seriously, If the backlash from the last cover-up was such an embarrassing (Yet somewhat hilarious) state of affairs i cannot wait for their response this time around.

Yeah we already know BoB and CCP employees are cheaters, maybe not all of them but we know that its happened, this has already been confirmed when everyone last started throwing allegations around and the scapegoat owned up, yet for some reason was not punished.

Yeah we also know that we don't have a Dev's admission of guilt to these new set of allegations, Because now CCP is meant to prove to us that they are in fact not completely and utterly corrupt.

CCP's truthfulness and professionalism is now seriously doubted and you can expect to see more and more of these threads until the issue of transparency is solved by CCP once and for all. Or they at least manage to successfully convince us that they are actually trying to help, Which obviously is not working if we are having this problem, Again.

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Originally by: Rhaegor Stormborn

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*snip* response to moderated post.- Rauth

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Originally by: Sickari

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Originally by: Shinigami

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Edited by: Shinigami on 26/05/2007 07:58:08

I for one want to thank CCP for the excellent job they are doing in handling this situation. I'm sure they didn't want to be here on a holiday weekend.

Keep up the good work!

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the 12y old kids in bob are helping ccp cause again...keep it up..u both will play wow soon

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Originally by: Thempress

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haha MASS HYSTERIA!!!

This thread is so amusing. Bob's responses to it are even more funny.

It'll be interesting to see the outcome of this.

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Originally by: Beyond Horizon

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Rod, noone accuses you of anything yet, just chill the **** out.

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Originally by: capt robn0id

---

Let me see if I can address the arguments and counter arguments.
1) DEvh4x omg joined our corp, gave himself director axs for 20 mins then left all without a word.
1 - retort) He was probably fixing a bugged pos...they do this all the time.
sorry, there were no petitioned pos, the corp only had 3 and they all work fine.

2)Isd reporter banned because bob and co said so
2 - retort) The guy did bump the dread and should have left when told to
if this bump caused any problems i'm sure it would have been petitioned. Getting banned without a chance to explain onesself, based totally on the msn messages sent by a regular player, is an odd result to this. I dont personally have msn contacts of CCP staf, and therefor, this is itself creates a skewed playing field irrespective of what goes on in this correspondence.

3) rp stuff
3-retort) who knows. I dont rp

Now, until the facts actually come to light I dont think anyonew should make any grand statements however, as it stands now, none of these issues have been answered sufficiently

---

Originally by: Trac3rt

---

The problem is that BoB have an unfair advantage by having direct contact with the DEVs, who appear quite willing to bend to their will. Something no other group has. If BoB has a problem in-game, they get on MSN and ask whats up directly, anyone else has their petitions deleted, forum threads deleted within seconds, and steonwalled at every turn by those same Devs - how is this even remotely fair?

If you consider the devs as BoBs friends (which has been stated by BoB), you have the following situation occur: BoBs friend joins your corp, gives themselves Directorship, then leaves and deletes almost all logs showing they were there without any invitation or explanation. Do you trust them? Of course not!

I don't mind the Devs having in-game friends, but those friends should NEVER be allowed to know that the character is actually a Dev.

Call us the Tinfoil hat brigate all you want, but we have a past precedent of currption and current admission of guilt from BoB members claiming they have a direct MSN hotline to the Devs. Frankly this stinks, and CCP should really clean up their act.

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Originally by: FatHed

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Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley

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Originally by: Trac3rt

---

The problem is that BoB have an unfair advantage by having direct contact with the DEVs, who appear quite willing to bend to their will. Something no other group has. If BoB has a problem in-game, they get on MSN and ask whats up directly, anyone else has their petitions deleted, forum threads deleted within seconds, and steonwalled at every turn by those same Devs - how is this even remotely fair?

If you consider the devs as BoBs friends (which has been stated by BoB), you have the following situation occur: BoBs friend joins your corp, gives themselves Directorship, then leaves and deletes almost all logs showing they were there without any invitation or explanation. Do you trust them? Of course not!

I don't mind the Devs having in-game friends, but those friends should NEVER be allowed to know that the character is actually a Dev.

Call us the Tinfoil hat brigate all you want, but we have a past precedent of currption and current admission of guilt from BoB members claiming they have a direct MSN hotline to the Devs. Frankly this stinks, and CCP should really clean up their act.

---

The problem lies with people like you and the people in Goonswarm. People that distrust everyone and everything that might influence their way of playing in some way.
You won't stop until everything goes your way, it does not matter if you're right or wrong you're just doing it for the lulz.

That's the real problem in this game.

---

That really makes no sense.

So, let me get this straight. You would gladly pay to play a game, use WoW for instance, and spend hours raiding each week, multiple times in a week. Then, you finally get all this epic loot, and your standing in town, and some other player, that started before, and for some reason he didn't do the instances, is handed the same set of epic loot as yours by a developer? And you think that is a system we should trust? That's the problem? Our lack of trust? Your right, CCP had it, and they threw it away to help their friends have more toys.

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Originally by: Sen Xia

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I think there is another big lesson to be learned here. The only reason goons had to blitz the forums is because CCP has shown us we have no other viable ways to make these issues heard. If people want this behavior to stop, then CCP needs to figure out a better way to handle its PR disasters that doesn't involve deleting threads and disabling forums.

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Originally by: New Hampshire

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What strikes me is that these allegations (at least some of which, T20, have been admitted and are therefore no longer mere allegations) of employee misconduct appear to always revolve around BoB, which just happens to be arguably the most successful alliance in the game.

I'm having a REAL hard time believing that to be a coincidence.

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Originally by: iskies

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I have three accounts; after reading this I think I am going to cancel them - I have been playing for several years and the corrupt staff at CCP discussions in the past were ignored. I think they must come clean and stop the game playing 100%. Draw a line between what the devs/gm's are allowed to do.
Is this really what happened to ASCN? The talk of BoB cheating then was also rampant; The GM joining the corp for the short time was most likely trying to see if a capital ship or capital ship parts were being built, spying to see what BoB's next target would be. Cynical comments?? Maybe.... but I am getting sick of the allegations that are for the most part well founded.

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Originally by: Arl

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Some people talked about this in-game and had their accounts permanently banned.

Given the number of replies here I don't think this is a secret anymore, any chance of a statement on if CCP intend lifting the permanent game account bans imposed?

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Originally by: Victor Vision

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Edited by: Victor Vision on 26/05/2007 13:46:05

Originally by: maria stallion

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Edited by: maria stallion on 26/05/2007 13:32:13
It would be so cool if the whiners in this thread quit eve, that would mean eve would only have people with intelligence left.

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So people who criticise have no intelligence?

Actually it is critical people who are inventors, engineers, philosophers, CEOs, journalists, designers etc.

The usual way to better something is to critically analyze what is status quo, find and announce the flaws and then make improvements from there.

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Originally by: Aralis

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I think a lot of people are missing out on Graelyns revelations. Which incidentally fit exactly with what I know and I knew him in game and he was a man of honour to the best of my knowledge.

There has been massive cheating favouring BOB since they first appeared. The tournaments have been fixed in their favour. (This is why my alliance (CVA) don't enter the alliance tournaments.)

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Originally by: RaYaa

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I really hope Start Trek Online will be worth playing ... and to finally cancel all EVE-O acc's. Its kinda makes me sick when i see CCP spiting in face their customers over and over again ...

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Originally by: Beyond Horizon

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Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley

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Originally by: RaYaa

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I really hope Start Trek Online will be worth playing ... and to finally cancel all EVE-O acc's. Its kinda makes me sick when i see CCP spiting in face their customers over and over again ...

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Can i have your stuffs?

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For some strange reason I really hate this saying.. maybe because every r3tard in this game thinks it's his duty to say it?

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Originally by: HankMurphy

---

goons scorch games period. its their purpose in life. they dont play games, they break them.

before quitting? quitting? nah, thats just part of their act. its phase three (see below)

your talking about an organization that is nothing short of a plague on games. Aside from some personal spite towards RA, its a big reason i am fighting where i am in this war. they kick, they scream, they post w/ alts and say they will quit... as i said 10 pages or so ago.... they will sensationalize ANYTHING to further their own agenda.

thats all any of this is. besides the site crash, only thing that occured here was a dev doing his job.

goons... i mean, with their resources they could actually be a great group of players. but instead their leadership points them in the opposite direction

they know they dont have the skill, ability, patience or anything involved in being successful in this or any other game, so they get as many ppl together as they can and go from there... not stopping for anything, no line in the sand. where most of us would draw teh line at decency, they have just begun. their game is ruining yours, understand yet?

metagaming..... and then they wanna cry "only reason bob wins is they cheat" , rofl. and ppl still support them. people like this guy....

Originally by: Beyond Horizon

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Goons had strict orders from The Mittani not to engage the threadnaught mode UNLESS the first thread is closed. You brought it upon yourselves.

---

how BOS had remained in goons this long i'll never know. i'd be shamed out of the game myself... but i guess thats why none of you show your alliance name when you post on forums.

how can ANY ONE OF YOU come in here and preach ANYTHING when you sit back and take orders to break someones website forums? way to be a part of the community

i, like many, read the SA forums, and its disgusting. you spew your anti-bob hate, cry and cry about how they cheat (w/ baseless accusations) then turn around and say "hey! we are ****ed, lets go ruin the game for everyone else"

as a group you openly admit to it! you accuse others of everything under the sun but at the end of the day you are the very thing you claim to despise. YOU are the worst part of this community. while most ppl attempt to be somewhat courteous on the forums, while most ppl want the game to get better and better, you just want to see it come to a screeching halt.

like the michael moore puppet in team america, screaming "bring it all down!" ... whether it be a node or a thread... your actions are always the same. we are here to create a game environment, you are here to destroy it. *snip* you

Mittani:"ok guys, we dont get our way you kick and scream and break teh website"

yeah, real nice. ok, whats phase two?

Mittani:"get on other websites and slander ccp"

sweet, whats phase three?

Mittani:"get back to the forums and post that your gonna quit the game"

at what point do you actually play the game? you dont! well, not unless you can crash a node...

it sucks all the goons that threaten to leave in this thread are nothing but hollow threats. god knows i wish they would just delete every goon member from the game, period.

I hate mass punishment, but would be a HUGE step towards returning this community to what it once was.

well, only thing i can take away from this entire event is a bit more comfort knowing i'm fighting on the right side in this war.

when we win, perhaps the goons will finally get bored and go ruin a different game?

---

Originally by: minmof

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well even when this "might" not be true, i'm canceling my 4 accounts as now, in part because of all this BS and in part because who in his right mind would think that someone with power playing the game as everyone else won't be tempted to use his/her powers to get a little bit of help in the game? i've done it before, not in a game but in RL, and i thought i was the kind of guy that is always correct and won't cheat over anything, so even if this is not true and anything that has been aid before about CCP changing the way of the game, i can't and won't pay top $ for a top game where their devs have equal rights as everone else but with a bit"" of power, so unless CCP puts their people out of regular accounts this game is not worth for me.

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Originally by: Stahlregen

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Originally by: Dominique Parr

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Originally by: Prall Grosserbauch

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Edited by: Prall Grosserbauch on 27/05/2007 06:28:49

Originally by: OverKill

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words

---

You'll have to help me out here, I'm not quite seeing why the fact that a game does not have an endgame makes cheating and developer misconduct something not worth caring about.

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You say they cheated, they say they didn't. Your word against theirs. And before you go saying "They did it in the past." (A lame arguement if you ask me.) Since when does one person's guilt encompass an entire group?

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I'm pretty sure since bob tried to grief goonswarm out of the game for having a signature on their own private forums that we now get to do that to them.

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Originally by: Elmo Noguchi

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Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley

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Originally by: Stahlregen

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Originally by: Dominique Parr

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Originally by: Prall Grosserbauch

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Edited by: Prall Grosserbauch on 27/05/2007 06:28:49

Originally by: OverKill

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words

---

You'll have to help me out here, I'm not quite seeing why the fact that a game does not have an endgame makes cheating and developer misconduct something not worth caring about.

---

You say they cheated, they say they didn't. Your word against theirs. And before you go saying "They did it in the past." (A lame arguement if you ask me.) Since when does one person's guilt encompass an entire group?

---

I'm pretty sure since bob tried to grief goonswarm out of the game for having a signature on their own private forums that we now get to do that to them.

---

So that's what this is about huh, not about justice or fairplay. It's all about goons getting hurt by BoB and now it's time for revenge by spamming and trying to discredit BoB & CCP. Thanks for the explanation there Stahlregen, i hope people will soon see you for who you really are.

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You're saying that Goons targetting CCP for things that don't relate to BoB at all is somehow...an attack to get back at BoB? You're not helping your case much here.

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Originally by: Oohwha Schipperman

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Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley

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So that's what this is about huh, not about justice or fairplay. It's all about goons getting hurt by BoB and now it's time for revenge by spamming and trying to discredit BoB & CCP. Thanks for the explanation there Stahlregen, i hope people will soon see you for who you really are.

---

That's a pretty transparent misreading of Stahlgren's post.

As for "discrediting" BoB and CCP -- they would have to have some shred of credibility left in order to discredit them. The t20 incident pretty much took that off the table.

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Originally by: Stradiot

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it's sickening watching this game of "smoke & mirrors" being played...having the real issues be ignored....have any and all proof ignored rather than DISPROVED with undeniable facts

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Originally by: KIATolon

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I wonder how bob would done in this war without their bugged complexes, spawned t2 bpo's and dev lead cap ship fleets.

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Originally by: Stradiot

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Originally by: hellhathnofury

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This is madness! All CCP need to do is say:

"We're sorry, something happened."

---

sorry but that's not even close to enough...they had a chance to fix things the first time around with t20..but instead they created an IA department that apparently does absolutely nothing..and downplayed the events that took place in order to enhance their damage control..unless they can take actions that guarantee every single player that these cases of collusion and corruption will never be allowed to take place again (rather than just trying to make it so we don't learn about them) they will not regain anybody's trust in them as a business entity

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Originally by: Lee Bian

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Originally by: Avon

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No, the correct avenue, as has been stated in this thread, was not used. Other inappropriate channels were tried, but that counts for nothing.

You can stick your fingers in your ears and scream "la la la, I can't hear you", but it doesn't make your position true, or make the facts disappear.

Either the goons LIED and they did email IA before the threadnaught, or they are hypocrites for trying to bypass the correct channels.

I don't actually care which of those two points are true, because both bring in to question the credibility of the entire thread.

---

Emails where sent to Arkanon and petitions where created. Neither yielded anything.

Speaking about putting your fingers in your ears...

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Originally by: Prall Grosserbauch

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Originally by: Avon

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My failure is clearly indcated by the number of people trying to shut me up / derail me.

---

There's a difference between derailing and rerailing.

On that note I'm curious as to what possible reason you could have for wanting to keep allegations of developer misconduct hidden from the general populace.

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Originally by: Prall Grosserbauch

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Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley

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I'm curious as to what possible reason GoonSwarm could have for wanting to make allegations look like facts.

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Allegations like these you mean?

Originally by: Dianabolic

---

You do realise that, in a previous witch hunt, the fact that many of us speak to the devs / gm's / employees of CCP on a regular basis as friends is already common knoweldge?

And you're now complaining that we speak to these people, who are also our friends, about stuff in-game?

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Originally by: Dianabolic

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We have a "special" line (if you want to call msn that) to our FRIENDS.

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Originally by: D'Artagnan

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Now we look at the method of contact GS member has to petition it BoB member can MSN it.

---

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Originally by: Stradiot

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you're wrong, it's highly implicit of wrongdoing

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Originally by: Stradiot

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Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley

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Edited by: Alice Cholmondeley on 27/05/2007 14:06:20

Originally by: Stradiot

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you're wrong, it's highly implicit of wrongdoing

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When something is implied, which is usually subjectively, it does not make it a fact.

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which is why it's going to be investigated by arkanon

p.s. post with your main you spineless coward, if you have anything worth saying, it's worth saying with your main

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Originally by: Stradiot

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Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley

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Originally by: Stradiot

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Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley

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Edited by: Alice Cholmondeley on 27/05/2007 14:06:20

Originally by: Stradiot

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you're wrong, it's highly implicit of wrongdoing

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When something is implied, which is usually subjectively, it does not make it a fact.

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which is why it's going to be investigated by arkanon

p.s. post with your main you spineless coward, if you have anything worth saying, it's worth saying with your main

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So you're saying this thread is not needed then. Arkanon was going to investigate it before, but for some reason GoonSwarm didn't find the lack of drama satisfying.

---

still too much of a spineless coward to post on your main i see

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Originally by: Stradiot

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do you even know what my position is? i've already said in this thread that i don't care if fixing eve means causing all 0.0 alliances to implode (including goonswarm), i want the rampant corruption and collusion to end and for those involved to be publically held accountable, and i want a system to be put in place where none of this behind the curtains palm-greasing can happen again

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Originally by: FlamingErictilePhaillicy

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Guys lets make one thing straight here.... CCP has cheated before with bob, and they did nothing about it.

This situation might not amount to anything huge other then the firing of a volunteer, but lets thing about the implications of this. Bob has direct lines via msn, to the top of command. They circimvent the whole petition system and speak directly to the devs and get petitions taken care of immediatly. This is not fair to the rest of the player base and has other implications. As far as we know the devs sit in teamspeak with bob, answer their every whim via msn. There are probably MANY more cases of corrupt actions between bob and the GMS, I mean really if this stuff keeps coming to light their must be some truth to it, and their is probably much more as well.

Goonswarm, I applaud you for bringing the truth to light, don't listen to anyone else when they throw a bunch of sand in your eyes for this.

---

Originally by: Alias11

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Originally by: Avon

---

Well, as I don't use MSN, and have no CCP MSN contacts, I would say that as an alliance-wide generalisation it is quite inaccurate.

---

So since you, personally, have not had a chummy, casual relationship with the developers of this game and have not abused those contacts to circumvent the systems in place to get assistance makes everything just hunkie dorie then. No one is calling you, personally, a cheater. A fair number of us are probably calling you dumb, but not a cheater. Your alliance, on the other hand, is more crooked than a Kennedy campaign

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Originally by: Phocas Lebournes

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Oh dear get a clue. Posting threads on a forum is for sure no DDos attack you ****.

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Originally by: Halca

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Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley

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Originally by: Phocas Lebournes

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Oh dear get a clue. Posting threads on a forum is for sure no DDos attack you ****.

---

A distributed denial-of-service (DDoS) attack is one in which a multitude of systems (in this case posters on a forum) flood a single target (eve-o forum), thereby causing denial of service for users of the targeted system (eve-o forum). The flood of incoming messages to the target system (eve-o forum) essentially forces it to shut down, thereby denying service to the system to legitimate users.

GoonSwarm is guilty of performing a DDoS, especially since it was coordinated.

---

You have no evidence to prove that ISD moderation team took down the forums to stop the inundation of threads to give Arkanon time to post his thread and stop it. There is no denying it was spam but people calling it a DDoS are at best simple and at worse disingenuous shills.

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Originally by: Prall Grosserbauch

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Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley

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A distributed denial-of-service (DDoS) attack is one in which a multitude of systems (in this case posters on a forum) flood a single target (eve-o forum), thereby causing denial of service for users of the targeted system (eve-o forum).

---

Quote:

---

On the Internet, a distributed denial-of-service (DDoS) attack is one in which a multitude of compromised systems attack a single target, thereby causing denial of service for users of the targeted system. The flood of incoming messages to the target system essentially forces it to shut down, thereby denying service to the system to legitimate users.

A hacker (or, if you prefer, *****er) begins a DDoS attack by exploiting a vulnerability in one computer system and making it the DDoS "master." It is from the master system that the intruder identifies and communicates with other systems that can be compromised. The intruder loads *****ing tools available on the Internet on multiple -- sometimes thousands of -- compromised systems. With a single command, the intruder instructs the controlled machines to launch one of many flood attacks against a specified target. The inundation of packets to the target causes a denial of service.

---

---

Originally by: Halca

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Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley

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Originally by: Halca

---

Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley

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Originally by: Phocas Lebournes

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Oh dear get a clue. Posting threads on a forum is for sure no DDos attack you ****.

---

A distributed denial-of-service (DDoS) attack is one in which a multitude of systems (in this case posters on a forum) flood a single target (eve-o forum), thereby causing denial of service for users of the targeted system (eve-o forum). The flood of incoming messages to the target system (eve-o forum) essentially forces it to shut down, thereby denying service to the system to legitimate users.

GoonSwarm is guilty of performing a DDoS, especially since it was coordinated.

---

You have no evidence to prove that ISD moderation team took down the forums to stop the inundation of threads to give Arkanon time to post his thread and stop it. There is no denying it was spam but people calling it a DDoS are at best simple and at worse disingenuous shills.

---

You mean as disingenuous as the lastest goon replies? And oh, goons calling for proof is hillarious, you should have done that with the OP issue in the first place.

---

First off I'm not a goon. I've been through this with better people than some random bob-alt so unless you fancy posting with your main you can leave that right there.

Now, you may continue with your obvious distraction about big bad things like DDoS after you've been proven wrong and or willfully ignorant.

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Originally by: Nalf

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Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley

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Hurrrr Hurrrrrrrrrrrrrr Hurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

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How does that BoB***** taste?

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Originally by: Halca

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Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley

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Your replies get worse by the minute, fail.

---

More trolling with zero relevance, lose.

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Originally by: Alias11

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Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley

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Originally by: Halca

---

Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley

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Edited by: Alice Cholmondeley on 27/05/2007 18:03:09

Originally by: Halca

---

Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley

---

Originally by: Halca

---

Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley

---

Originally by: Phocas Lebournes

---

Oh dear get a clue. Posting threads on a forum is for sure no DDos attack you ****.

---

A distributed denial-of-service (DDoS) attack is one in which a multitude of systems (in this case posters on a forum) flood a single target (eve-o forum), thereby causing denial of service for users of the targeted system (eve-o forum). The flood of incoming messages to the target system (eve-o forum) essentially forces it to shut down, thereby denying service to the system to legitimate users.

GoonSwarm is guilty of performing a DDoS, especially since it was coordinated.

---

You have no evidence to prove that ISD moderation team took down the forums to stop the inundation of threads to give Arkanon time to post his thread and stop it. There is no denying it was spam but people calling it a DDoS are at best simple and at worse disingenuous shills.

---

You mean as disingenuous as the lastest goon replies? And oh, goons calling for proof is hillarious, you should have done that with the OP issue in the first place.

---

First off I'm not a goon. I've been through this with better people than some random bob-alt so unless you fancy posting with your main you can leave that right there.

Now, you may continue with your obvious distraction about big bad things like DDoS after you've been proven wrong and or willfully ignorant.

---

It's pretty obvious you haven't proven anything to be wrong and you know that just fine. It's kinda sad you suddenly have the urge to cry about alts when things come up you would rather not answer. Hard isn't it.

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Answer what you ridiculous little troll?

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Your replies get worse by the minute, fail.

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Getting in on this pyramid while I can

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Originally by: Halca

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Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley

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Originally by: Halca

---

Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley

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Your replies get worse by the minute, fail.

---

More trolling with zero relevance, lose.

---

I'm sorry, i was having a perfectly valid discussion. It was you my dear goon that came in feet first in troll mode. Try to behave and have a nice conversation.

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Keep 'em coming little bob-alt. Each post you make is a vindication of why a lot of people hate you and your corp.

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Originally by: Kerfira

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Edited by: Kerfira on 27/05/2007 19:51:53

Originally by: Prall Grosserbauch

---

Originally by: Rod Blaine

---

hey also seem to coincidentally have chosen the exact most opportune time to escalate it to this level if their goal where to be to be able to get it escalated to the maximum possible extent before CCP get up to speed investigating and explaining the accusationis.

---

Timestamp of Kugutsumen's first post on the Raekhan incident 2007-05-25, 02:23 PM (I won't post the link for obvious reasons but it's easily verifiable)
Timestamp of CEO Pyrex's first post regarding the Sharkbait incident on Goonfleet forums 2007-05-25, 16:25 (Orange Species will be able to confirm if asked)

So, no, this is not been something we've been sitting on for days or weeks waiting to unleash.

---

Wow, so you waited a whole 4 hours and 2 minutes for CCP to answer your petition before storming E-O???

*sarcasm on*
Hmmm, that is a very generous amount of time to give CCP to sort matters out (just before a holiday weekend too...) before taking matters into your own hand....
*sarcasm off*

The timing of this strongly indicate that GS had in fact no intention of seing this resolved as normal, but wanted to harm the game instead.

Congrats, you sunk to a new low in EVE history!!!!

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Originally by: Prall Grosserbauch

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Originally by: Kerfira

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Wow, so you waited a whole 4 hours and 2 minutes for CCP to answer your petition before storming E-O???

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No we waited until the first polite message asking for clarification was summarily deleted on Eve-0.

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Originally by: Elmo Noguchi

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They went the normal way and it was promptly deleted- doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that an escalation was what would be required to get it into the public eye, which I view as a public service.

Better for people to know and have it be explained than for it to be covered up.

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Originally by: Prall Grosserbauch

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Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley

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Originally by: Prall Grosserbauch

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Originally by: Kerfira

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Wow, so you waited a whole 4 hours and 2 minutes for CCP to answer your petition before storming E-O???

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No we waited until the first polite message asking for clarification was summarily deleted on Eve-0.

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You should have waited for a petition answer.

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My MSN client was acting up

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Originally by: Nehalennia Mellona

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Honest Moderators here can confirm that our CEO made a single post with these claims that was almost immediately censored. Being quiet and polite just gets your concerns censored and ignored.

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Originally by: Elmo Noguchi

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Edited by: Elmo Noguchi on 27/05/2007 20:02:42

Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley

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Originally by: Nehalennia Mellona

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Honest Moderators here can confirm that our CEO made a single post with these claims that was almost immediately censored. Being quiet and polite just gets your concerns censored and ignored.

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I'm sorry, but have you not been telling everyone you submitted a actual petition that was deleted? but now you're saying it was a forum post.. oh boy.

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It was both. Review the thread- Darkstar 1 submitted petitions before any of this came around. Those were ignored.

Then a forum post including all of the allegations, including the ISD stuff was posted. It was deleted.

Then the threadnaught came.

This is all laid out very clearly throughout the thread- you can't twist unclear speech on this page into changing that.

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Originally by: Darkstar BP

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This is an utterly fascinating slow motion of a trainwreck as it happens. There is beauty in decay, if you are willing to see it.

I see the drama, the anger that is permeating the community at the moment and the rot, the fundamental distrust in CCP, starts to spread out. Did anyone notice that the anger has even begun to seep into CCP’s responses? Just look at Kieron’s responses in the other thread made on the 27th. Brilliant, that emotion will come back to haunt you. Hide behind rules, delete, lock and ban as much as you can…..every step you hurt yourself.

Everybody loses.
CCP loses big time: Digged and Slashdotted again, CCP is going to find out very soon whether the old mantra “any publicity is good publicity” is true. I think in this case it is not. The allegations will come back again and again, something new will surface and you won’t be able to stop the snowball. This will now go on and on for the remainder of this game. It must be very disenchanting to see that you are now so fundamentally distrusted by a large portion of the playerbase that any allegation snowballs into 150 page thread and people take it to the public forums.

You brought it onto yourself: After T20 you had the choice to explain and set professional rules, visibly to the community, whereby you would avoid interference with top-level alliance politics. You didn’t set those rules. You blamed T20 and T20 alone, you swept it under the rug, you banned people for making references to the incident. You warned and banned people for using the BoD acronym, and let BoB make Dev jokes all around, brilliant. And thus it festered on. You didn’t want your developers and GM’s to lose their friends on MSN, now that friendship is coming back to haunt you. You continue to believe that it is OK to be involved in top-level alliance warfare.

BoB loses too: BoB can and should win Eve at the moment. D2 has not been able to effectively coordinate the North and can’t even stand up to the 2nd tier alliances combined with MC. You have the allies, the experienced players, the Titans, MC to kill Ragoon. Anything less than that would be failure. After these two alliances are removed from 0.0 you will have won Eve. There is no alliance that even has a remote chance of challenging you after that, and you suggesting that is a joke.

That win will always, of course, be tainted forever and people will smear you as long as your alliance exists. You could have made choices along the way that would have avoided this. You chose not to. You focused on the narrowest possible definition of being able to do what the game allows. Anything goes within the law in terms of Metagaming outside the game. You cherished your special relationship with CCP.You and a group of people in CCP developed a culture in which T20 could allow himself to get compromised, in which those people are always a click on MSN away.

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Originally by: Karlemgne

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Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley

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Originally by: MrJordanIOI

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Hello Alice

I am one of those 10 "alts" who signed Darkstar's very clever rehash of this situation and how it may have come to be.

When you are done sorting your single (one!) member in your corporation "Christine" and found time to dry your ears please
start a conversation in game or mail me so we can get more intimate.

I d like to prove I am not an alt.

Thank you for your attention,
IOI

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It's hard to distinguish between alts and mains when there is so much wishful thinking going on. It's obvious people are /signing because of their ineptitude to form their own opinion.
It will always be easier to just follow someone you can maby remotely relate to and that does not lie -too- much.
Sad to see but not much one can do about it. By the way, i don't mind alts with content.

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I signed it to, and I'm not an alt. Notice the corp and alliance ticker to your left.

Thanks, and have a nice day.

-Karlemgne

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Originally by: Malashek Vatrii

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Originally by: Alice Cholmondeley

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It's hard to distinguish between alts and mains when there is so much wishful thinking going on. It's obvious people are /signing because of their ineptitude to form their own opinion.
It will always be easier to just follow someone you can maby remotely relate to and that does not lie -too- much.
Sad to see but not much one can do about it. By the way, i don't mind alts with content.

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Maybe someone formed a similar opinion and there is no point writing it again with minuscule differences, so /signed is easier.

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Originally by: Alias11

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Just an eff why eye but when you're trying to be condescending and holier-than-thou it really helps if you don't massacre the language with phrases like "their ineptitude to form their own opinion."

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Originally by: Karlemgne

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Originally by: Malachon Draco

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Originally by: DB Preacher

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dbp

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Question DBP, do you think Hellmar is laughing atm?

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Originally by: Etho Demerzel

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By applying censure in this forum about this grave subject, CCP gives us little choice but to go to other places to be heard. As Slashdot, Digg and PCGamer forums.

It is not a very wise thing to do. But then again not much wisdom was shown here till now...

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